Vampire: the Who What Now? (an orientation post)

[propergoffick]

Vampire is a table top role playing game, a live action role playing game, and at least three video games about pretending to be a vampire. And some card games and a board game which involve a bit less pretending.

It exists as two settings/product lines - Vampire: the Masquerade and Vampire: the Requiem - which use a lot of the same words and were worked on by a lot of the same people and essentially do the same thing in similar-but-different ways.

It was definitely created in 1991. By the turn of the millennium, things got a bit complicated, intellectual properties changed hands, licencing was involved, at least one attempt at an MMO was made, and most of the actual people involved had moved on in some way or another. The current shape of things is a bit like this:

Vampire: the Masquerade

TTRPG

First, second, third (Revised) and fourth (V20) editions are all licensed by Onyx Path Publishing. Books for second, Revised and V20 are all available via DriveThruRPG (where, just to confuse everyone, they're still under White Wolf's publisher imprint). If the cover has green marble, it's one of these.

Second, Revised and V20 also have a historical setting - Vampire: the Dark Ages, or occasionally Dark Ages Vampire (because Revised just had to be different). Both of these are, again, licensed by Onyx Path Publishing and available via DriveThruRPG (links are attached to the names 'cause it's a tiny bit clearer that way). If the cover has black marble, it's one of these.

Revised edition has another historical setting - Victorian Age Vampire. Yellowing covers with wrought iron bits on them.

There are also two localised settings. Kindred of the East is a compatible sister game for second and Revised edition which details the very different kinds of vampire found across China, Japan and associated territories. Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom is a localisation of Revised edition, which reskins and reinterprets the core clans, storyline and themes of Vampire for games set in sub-Saharan Africa.

Fifth edition (V5) is overseen by White Wolf Entertainment, a division of Paradox Interactive, who currently own the Vampire IP (and the greater World of Darkness IP of which it's part). Digital products are available from the World of Darkness webstore, physical books/dice/screens etcetera are available from Your Friendly Local Gaming Store or direct from distributor Modiphius. Onyx Path Publishing also releases supplementary material for V5, via Kickstarter. If the cover has white marble, it's one of these.

Hopelessly confused? No worries.

• For V20 (omnibus edition, plot-driven gameplay where your characters happen to be vampires), start here.
  
  
• For V5 (newest edition, character-driven gameplay that's very much about the experience of Being A Vampire), start here.

LARP

Live action rules are the purview of By Night Studios and again, books are available via DriveThruRPG.

Video games

2000's Vampire: the Masquerade - Redemption (available via Steam and GOG) and 2004's Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines (again, via Steam and GOG). Both are published by Activision.

• Note: Redemption has the capacity to create and run multiplayer environments. How well this works eighteen years after release and several compatibility redesigns later I've no idea.
• Note: Bloodlines is barely playable without the Unofficial Patch mod by Wesp5. The GOG version comes with the latest Basic version of this mod by default. There's also a Plus option which makes changes to the game, adding subsystems and restoring cut content, some of which was better left cut if you ask me but never mind.

There's also Vampire: the Masquerade: We Eat Blood And All Our Friends Are Dead, one of two storylines included in World of Darkness Preludes. This mobile game with a PC port was intended to set the scene for V5 and establish the game's aesthetic. It's available on Steam.
2020 update: after the baggage surrounding Preludes writer, known asshole and accused rapist Zak Smith became too significant to ignore, Preludes was pulled from sale.

While it's not an official and licensed Vampire product, Dontnod's Vampyr (for PC, XONE and PS4) is a transparently obvious spiritual successor to the Vampire: the Masquerade titles. I'm not saying they went through Activision's bins and nicked off with everything that wouldn't get them sued, but everything from "aggravated damage" to "the Embrace" says this game's wearing its influences on its sleeve.

There's also the Princes of Darkness mod for Crusader Kings II, which is an unlicensed but popular simulator for the continent-spanning War of Princes that defines Vampire's Dark Ages setting. Personally, I can't stand it, but if you're into super-granular grand strategy games it's apparently brilliant.

Other stuff

Onyx Path also has an official Redbubble store, and has produced a card game about Vampire politics called Prince's Gambit.

A legacy board game, Vampire: the Masquerade - Heritage by Nice Game Publishing, was released in 2020.

A narrative board game, Vampire: the Masquerade – Chapters by Flyos Games, funded on Kickstarter in early 2020. Your moderator will be leaping on the late backer train as soon as it reaches the station...

There was a Living Card Game, Vampire: the Eternal Struggle, which Black Chantry Productions are bringing back into print... soon.

And, Caine preserve us, there was Kindred: the Embraced, a short-lived telly series which did the best it could under difficult circumstances.

Vampire: the Requiem

TTRPG

Vampire: the Requiem has had a relatively modest two editions. Both are produced by Onyx Path Publishing, under license, and both are available through DriveThruRPG. Red cover? It's Requiem.

First edition Requiem was based on the "New World of Darkness" core game. It's a toolbox for playing archetypal vampires - the least developer-driven of the Vampire games, and the most open to individual interpretation and creativity. You'll need the New World of Darkness rulebook and the Vampire: the Requiem rulebook to play.

Second edition Requiem introduces more complexity to the mechanics and adds backstory and metaplot, making it more of a traditional "we give you canon" RPG. It's compatible with the Chronicles of Darkness material (the new name for the New World of Darkness) but doesn't need it. Start with the core rulebook here.

LARP

Rules for live-action Requiem are published under the Mind's Eye Theatre imprint. Start here.


The Storytellers' Vault

The Storytellers' Vault is a DriveThruRPG spinoff site, curated by White Wolf Entertainment, for fans to create and sell content. Mostly game supplements, but there's demand for art packs, novels and resources. Sky's the limit, really. Guidelines and resources for Storyteller's Vault creators are here. The house particularly recommends the Style Guides for each of the product lines as well as Bite Me by Rose Bailey, the Vampire line's longest-serving developer.

I bet that's cleared up precisely nothing.

Comments

[harpers_child]

Thank you for this. I am woefully ignorant of most editions because our storyteller runs 2nd ed masquerade with the occasional letting us steal things for werewolves from 3rd. (VtM3 = WW2 iirc) Our books smell like cloves even though no one in our group has smoked cloves around them.

[propergoffick]

That's one of the most quintessentially VtM problems I've ever heard. "Our books all smell of cloves even though it's not been 1998 for Some Time..."

There are... aspects of 2e that I really like. No bashing/lethal hairsplitting or clunky Path switch mechanics. But it does show its age a bit

Anyway, you're welcome. I had to do it all for a textbook chapter I'm writing anyway. Figured sharing was the decent thing to do.

[havocthecat]

I mean, I love what Dark Ages did in 2E with the worldbuilding and structure, but that's because one of my last characters was a Ravnos, so I took a look at modern, promply abandoned 75-90% of what was written in modern nights about them, and dived into all the Dark Ages materials instead for my character background and worldbuilding. Mr. Havoc does the same with the Assamites, who are not just his latest character, but his preferred clan.

I do have a Google Drive folder that's called "Ravnos Source Materials" where I spent, ah, a fair amount of time culling all of that into one place and picking and choosing what to use, so even though it's been a few years, Dark Ages is definitely where you want to go for Ravnos. Modern has That Book.

[propergoffick]

There's a lot to like about VTDA. I do wish they'd had the courage to go earlier - actually get into the Dark Ages proper, and predate the rise of the Tremere and the Giovanni (presenting that as the fait accompli which it needs to be for the modern nights) - but it's a good line. My longest-running game was 2e VTDA, so there must be something in there that keeps me around.

Ravnos are one of those clans that I've mentally written off for years, because to me something like the Anda Gangrel works a hell of a lot better than, well, That Book and material in the same vein. I like where they ended up during Revised: the clan shattered by an apocalyptic event and trying to work out what the hell just happened. But I'd kinda like the sales pitch on the Ravnos from someone who goes as far into them as I do the Giovanni (who I've spent the last year trying to make more palatable and functional, with some success).

[havocthecat]

What Dark Ages books have you read, because I've played a Cappadocian, and they do go pretty far back, it's not a fait accompli, we own Clanbook: Cappadocian because of that.

Oh my God, the Giovanni. I love them. Though. Okay. Please note, I have Strong Opinions on this clan, which I am sorry to say, you are now about to have them expressed at you? I've played a Cappadocian and a Giovanni, and I love both clans and have also put lots of thought into them both, but, but, I am also an Italian-American who grew up Catholic (and is no longer), and I have a huge damn chip on my shoulder for anyone who plays the Giovanni as goddamn mafioso mooks or thugs or sexpot necromancers running a bunch of hookers and whorehouses (true LARP story!) with no actual thought to Catholicism and how a bunch of goddamn medieval Italian Catholics would fuse necromancy, ancestor worship, relics, (because I feel that you do kind of need to look at the Catholic saints alongside the medieval concept of incorruptibility, because I am a true nerd, let's face it), and how that would work with fetters and wraiths, the medieval spiritual world, Augustus' deep need for blending the living world and the dead one that seems to be a bit of an inheritor of Cappadocius' need to become a god, and why the clan would fuse together into this incredibly horrific familial love/hate abusive family tree that pretends respectability when everyone knows they're a bunch of creepy fuckers.

But mostly in LARP you get either a bunch of ~spooky necromancers~ or mooks with really bad New Jersey Italian accents threatening to break everyone's kneecaps, and either one makes me roll my eyes a lot. Less so the spooky necromancers, because at least they're not leaning hard on the Italian wiseguy stereotypes, but if I were running a LARP and someone wanted to play another thuggish Giovanni mook, I think I might break my eyeballs from rolling my eyes.

[propergoffick]

I also own Clanbook: Cappadocian and dislike it. The overwhelming vibe I get off it is "here to go": that they're there because the timeline says they have to be and too much of what's done with them is foreshadowing the rise of the clan they're spun off from, rather than establishing them in their own right. The fait accompli remark - that's what I wish VTDA was, not a claim about what it is. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

(This is really a big tied-up-and-tangled Thought about the whole issue of metaplot, the Giovanni and Transylvania Chronicles, my bone-deep hatred of Thaumaturgy, the problem of doing a prequel game in a format that's all about player agency and how that doubles down on all the usual problems prequel content has about lining things up properly and so on. I think it needs cooking, and thinking about, and a proper post written up when I'm not depressed and inarticulate.)

As for the Giovanni: GOOD STUFF. As someone who has, er, done a bit of work on the concept of "necromancy" and the Christian tradition in my time, I agree that you've got to treat them as creepy Catholic ancestor-worshipping war profiteers to get the most out of them. I usually start with "haunt-related services" - because vampires are bound to kill and ghosts are bound to happen and who else are you gonna call? - and bagged blood from funeral parlours and real estate. I like my Giovanni as doing the infrastructural legwork, owning the things other vampires need and making themselves a necessity and having their own agenda tick quietly along in the background.

I put my hand up to having played around the stereotypes a bit - in that I've joined games with established Giovanni characters and had to lead by example, as it were. But I prefer playing the late Venetian, old-money ancilla who plays along with the performance right up until he doesn't and can bring the wayward to heel and actually act like a respectable man of business. Or characters from the diaspora: Dunsirn and Ghiberti or even a Welshman with the surname 'Giovanni', because it's not like we haven't had a wave of Italian immigration here. But what I really like are Giovanni characters who can integrate into the traditional grab-bag of a coterie: the chancers who are working on something outside the core remit, and nothing like what people expect.

[arcanetrivia]

I wondered why they jumped (as I saw it) to fifth edition. V20 was its own beast (no pun intended) in my head, rather than "fourth edition".

[propergoffick]

I think, at the time, V20 was envisioned as the last hurrah: a compendium and rationalisation and commemorative project. And then it sold, and people started looking forward and making books that added content, and it turned into more of a living iteration of the game. Also, at one point Eddy Webb from OPP was apparently working on a fourth edition; not sure what happened there.

I also wonder how much the conversation around D&D editions shapes the branding situation. If the words "fourth edition" are associated with backlash, toxicity and failed innovation and the words "fifth edition" with controversial but generally well received product that breaks a new marketplace... IDK. I'm probably seeing things that aren't there.

[havocthecat]

I have to admit, I never did look into VtR 2E's rules, mostly because, honestly, after 20 years of rules systems, this is getting a little pricey to purchase.

Plus I bought a lot of the LARP stuff as it came out because none of the tabletop friends I had were interested in playing the tabletop game, only the LARPers were into it.

[propergoffick]

VtR 2e is my secret shame. I've only played it once, never run it, and kind of slept on it because I saw it as a betrayal of 1e's no-metaplot only-toolbox principles. I believe some dumb shit sometimes.

I'm kinda glad someone here's into the LARP! If there's anything you think should be added to the masterpost (edition structures, get started advice, that kind of thing) lemme know and I'll bake it in. I know very little about LARP (only that it used to happen a lot in goth clubs and often gets kinda creepy with grooming and such) and even less about the prestige stuff that's been influencing development in the last decade or so.

[havocthecat]

I didn't buy V20 because "I already have all the rules, what do I need V20 for," so like I can talk? /eyerolls at self

I'm tentatively looking at 5E going, "I like some of it, but seriously, another rulebook?" But I have really loved this game since it came out.

I was going to say, "I don't remember LARP getting creepy," and then I remembered Stealth Backrub Guy in the 90s and how we'd all warn each other and the new women about him in that one LARP, so-- I think he tried it, but the (100% unofficial) women's LARPing network was also kinda prepared? Man, I hated that guy. But there were also some really great experiences and I did meet Mr. Havoc at a LARP.

I am really not happy that LARP has begun to turn into a dichotomy of "$5 game in a church basement with that dude that can't get a job so his character's high points are his only goals in life" (true story) OR ELSE you spend thousands of dollars and head off to a high-cost destination event with heavy costuming expectations (read: if you don't spent hundreds on your costume and makeup, you don't fit in).

Lemme think on it? Because I know a lot about the LARP and its history (I still have my first box set, plastic fangs and all!), but I have a very love/hate relationship with it, because of being a woman who LARPs assertive characters instead of sexy characters. I need to figure out a way to add stuff in that reflects more of the good while warning a bit about the bad - because things are definitely better than they were in the 90s! Games have acknowledged that they need codes of conduct! Ways to stop conversations that are uncomfortable! People have actual conversations about these things!

I love LARPing and I'm currently in a quarterly Game of Thrones-themed LARP (which is, let's face it, is just Dark Ages without fangs) because my life got so busy I can't handle a twice a month LARP commitment that's more than an hour's drive from my house - and they all twice monthly World of Darkness LARPs an hour's drive away right now.

[propergoffick]

Personally, I've found V5 to be a big enough jump from the Revised/V20 standard that it's worth a look. The core rules, anyway. I think Ken Hite and Karim Muammar (who did the rules) have sat down and really thought about what V:tM is and what it's about and how to provide incentives for players to align with that. Aesthetically, it's real "graphic design is my passion" stuff, and it has this odd in-media-res approach to showing-not-telling the actual setting. The two supplements, even before they were redacted for a much needed second edit, haven't really done a clear job of explaining much of anything. There's a blinder of a game in there - but it's buried under a lot of tripe.

Re. LARP: I don't actually have much to say to that other than nodding sagely and going "good start." Love/hate relationships and life-defining fascinations are par for the course around here, I think (it's certainly how I feel about the tabletop game), so - take your thinking time.

Actually, one more thing. I've looked into organised play around the UK and found it strangely quiet. There are networks and there are games but there doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz or chitchat or anything around them, and that makes me wonder - who's running these things, and why are they more isolated than the average tabletop group? And then there's the prestige stuff, which - no. I don't have that kind of money to spend, and I'm scared of in-crowds who've been attending high profile events forever. That's the kind of thing I suck up for work but absolutely do not want to do in my off-time.

[cutecabaret]

Seems I'm in a minority here, lol, vastly preferring Requiem 2e over anything OWOD. I like 2e's rules the best, I like that unlike masq, I can ignore the metaplot in ways that the rules don't reinforce (like, if you toss out the Cain Mythos, it makes the generation mechanic kind of weird), I just think it gives me more options as both a player and a GM. I can make characters that fight clan stereotype instead of having to make IE a business-y Ventrue. (granted I only ever played Revised edition of Masq.)

I'm actually lukewarm on Bite Me. There's a couple bits in there that have me squinting and sometimes I feel Wod/OPP as a whole is a little too tryhard edgy, but with Req, it's easier to tone it down, imo. (and this is coming from someone who LOVES grimdark.)

[propergoffick]

Do you want to know a secret?

I really liked 1e Requiem. If the group I'd had before uni had been willing to move with me I'd never have looked back. Missed the boat on Requiem 2e: it came out during a very... un-together... time of my life and I kind of wrote it off out of edition warrior stupid-headery. I bought in last year and I really like it.

You're spot on about the differences. I think it's down to Requiem being a self-consciously literary game, which draws on fictional archetypes for vampires' powers and weaknesses and makes a toolkit for vampire fiction, rather than a more traditionally gamery world-building exercise where each clan is designed to fulfil a role in society and has a corresponding stereotype. (There's a whole paper on this; the short version was presented last year and hopefully is still at bit.ly/RG18VAMP) It's an evolution, and it took 2e coming along with a dev team who hadn't worked on Masquerade to get in there and do things like make Humanity grow up.

Anyway. Requiem is my favourite but Masquerade is an easier sell. More people have heard of it, there's a video game, it's actually available in shops, and it's easier to knock a chronicle together because it provides its own plot and conflicts and the troupe just puts a spin on them.

I always thought Requiem was the one you played if you had your own vampire story you wanted to tell, and Masquerade was the one for when you weren't feeling super creative and just wanted to do some roleplaying.

Bite Me works, for me, because Rose Bailey is up front about there being more to it than that. I like dev notes in general, if they're substantive and not arty-farty puff pieces, and the little book clarified a lot of things about the big ones in a convenient, citeable-in-papers kind of way. Requiem has a broader sense of "darkness" in which there's room for compassion and decency. Masquerade goes harder on the grimdark: you're bad people and the world is shit. V5 in particular really latches on to that, with the Hunger being an unpredictable but constant thing and the Predator Types all being some flavour of, well, predatory bastard. I have no deep objection to that but I'm coming to realise it's not my jam.

[cutecabaret]

I'm gonna be upfront and admit the things that had me squinting at Bite Me are entirely nitpicky (I also haven't read it more than once.) (content note for noncon)

1. The bit about how to never ever use the actual discipline names in game makes no sense to me - you're telling me vampire society which has been around since the fall of Rome at least, never ever came up with their OWN terms to call their superpowers?
2. That one bit about how Vampire is not and never will be a game about noncon irked me because first of all, noncon fantasies are a kink for some people, two, if you say your game has sex and violence as a theme, to try to prohibit the most common form of interplay of sex and violence seems like...I dunno, it made me squint. OF COURSE content like that should be opt in and everybody has the right to leave a table they aren't comfortable with but...well, it brings me to my next issue:
3. There seems to be a lowkey undertone of "this is how the game I worked on OUGHT TO BE PLAYED because I said so" and yes, I know there's tons of disclaimers of how these are all just suggestions and you can do what you want, but...I dunno, it bothered me. Like I said, I'm aware I'm nitpicking.

As for the book issue, I primarily use pdfs and play via roll20 anyway, so maybe you can try that route? I still haven't figured out how play by post ought to work with the ruleset or else I'd try my hand at that at some point.

[propergoffick]

I've read it once all the way through and then patchily again while referencing it. And this isn't me saying YOUR NITPICKS ARE WRONG AND YOU ARE WRONG ALSO or anything weird like that.

1) Probably thought of 'em, forgot 'em, made up new ones that were more with the times, and so on. V5's set of three or four nicknames for the Discipline probably did a better job of it. I think she wanted to avoid that thing where people put game terms in the fiction they wrote for the line, over and over again, and went a bit too hard on preventing it. (A couple of days ago, Rose tweeted about how she overexplained and overemphasised some things because she was trying to preempt certain kinds of response, and I wonder if this isn't an example of that tendency in action?)

2) I'm somewhat wary of this one because - yeah, noncon fantasies are a valid kink, and I think there's always something inherently dubconny about vampires in general, but I've been proper crucified in some communities for advancing that viewpoint and - OK, Rose claims Bite Me was written in retrospect and I think it's easy to make claims about what you never allowed in retrospect when on the job you were probably making more judgement calls on an "if in doubt say no" kind of basis? Maybe?

3) Yeah. But I don't mind that. I don't have to listen to the developers but I do like them to tell me outright how they think things should work. And also: it is a guide to writing Vampire rather than playing it, and I think saying THE ONYX PATH PARTY LINE ON MY WATCH WAS LIKE THIS is a bit different.

Book issue? I... don't think I mentioned one.

[cutecabaret]

Ah, no, I mean how you said that because VTM is the popular one, it's the one sold in stores. I buy all mine in PDF form online so I don't have the problem of not being able to find it in physical stores.

It's my opinion that those communities suck, then, because yes, vampires have ALWAYS had a noncon element. It's kind of part of the genre.

3 only irked me because current Onyx Path books, as much as I love them, have recently have had this trend of like...repeating the same warnings and content notes in side bars throughout the whole book, and it's like "I read this warning in the corebook, you don't have to tell me every chapter in the supplement." It's a personal nitpick, lol.

I do actually miss Rose as a developer because as much as I love req 2e, the most recent supplement books are kind of hit or miss and my chief complaint is that the writers keep mixing up editions and fluff and lore between requiem editions and even Masq vs Req or they have a weird ratio of fluff to crunch.

[propergoffick]

Ah, I get you. I was thinking a bit more broad than "running my game" - what I mean is that Masquerade has additional visibility that comes from actual distribution and store shelf presence, and so it's the one people are more likely to pick up and get into first and so on.

In my considered opinion those communities do indeed suck chodes and I'm glad to be out of them. Good people can be rubbish sometimes.

I can understand being pissed off by that level of cautionary sidebarring, for sure. All I can say in its defence is that you have to tell The Gamers (you know the ones I mean) everything five times before they pick up on it.

I haven't looked into any of the supplements for 2e yet, but that sounds... undisciplined. And not good. But I think a lot of the attention is on V5 at the minute, since Dawkins hath inherited the earth and is getting to do the Hecata/blood cults book he's always wanted to. (I'm not jealous AT ALL, especially not since I pitched my version the same week OPP announced theirs...)

[cutecabaret]

You know, I really want to give them the benefit of the doubt with being distracted by V5 but...this is literally the 3rd book in a row that's had the "we don't know what edition or game line we're talking about" issue. I'd say:

Secrets of the Covenants: The only real value imo is the last chapter full of merits and stuff, which you can find on WODCODEX with enough context to use them, really. It's styled like the 1e clanbooks except it's almost impossible for me to read the actual covenant blurbs because it's all weird font on collage art backgrounds. If you're short on cash, skip it.

Thousand Years of Night: Worth it, doesn't get the editions mixed up TOO bad, but it's skewed more in fluff on the fluff/mechanic balance and doesn't really give much info on methuselahs. Very easy to work around, though.

Half-Damned: also worth it! Has more of the edition confusion issue and is more mechanic heavy except it contradicts itself in the fluff a lot and never answers the very important question of whether vampire/human intercourse ALWAYS spawns a dhampir or not.

Guide to the Night: Skip this one. Has the worst edition kerfluffle and isn't even saved with anything useful because although the settings are intriguing (minus one I have issues with), all of the merits and mechanics are sort of only useful for those settings. The social combat system just....is another rehash of the multiple attempts to use social stats to attack with in specific contexts. The overview of how to run the clans and covenants are where we get the bulk of "do they even know what game they're writing for?" Honestly I kind of wish Drivethrurpg had a return policy for pdfs because I regret buying this one.